Head gasket

ok Bit of a jackanory but here it goes

I snapped a stud in the head of my 1500, 1986 car, so had to take the head off. While it was off I got the stud removed and got the head skimmed, I also re-lapped the valves, replaced the valve seals and generally cleaned it up and de-coked it. When replacing the head, I used all new gaskets and was very thorough to make sure all surfaces were clean and smooth. The one thing I didn't do was replace the head bolts. When I torqued the head up I did it using the 90 degree then another 90 degree method.

Very shortly after this, I had to replace the radiator due to it being blocked and then leaking (the car has been sat since 1997). After that I started to get some white smoke on the over-run. This got progressively worse to the point we really couldn't drive it. It was only on over-run and at idle as soon as you touched the throttle the smoke disappeared.

Since then I have taken the head off and the head gasket has blown and I am presuming the reason for this is the fact I haven't replaced the bolts.

Due to the fact I don't want to be taking the head off again, I have had the head and the inlet crack tested and had all of the surfaces checked to make sure they are flat. Upon doing this the engineer mentioned that the valve seats looked very thin as if it was a performance head?? So on looking at the bills I have for the car, sure enough it has had a "modified cylinder head" in 1996 from Eurosport. I have tried ringing them and can't get through. Now I have new bolts, new gaskets and when they arrive will have new valve springs to go on.

So my question is: has the head gasket blown purely because I didn't replace the bolts or am I/did I torque them up wrong? Also because it's a modified head should I be using a "non standard" head gasket/stretch bolts

p.s the bolts are m10

Any thoughts/comments/advice/HELP!! would be appreciated.

From what I know there is a good chance the gasket blew just because of the bolts were not replaced.
The head stretch bolts are definatley a use once item.

I would be surprised if new standard head bolts would work on a modified head as long as you get the head bolts torqued up. Also and you may know this, but it is worth checking/retorquing the head bolts after the first couple of hundred miles.

So as long as the rest of the cooling system is ok and nothing overheats you should be ok.

Best of luck, let us know how you get on.

Alex

just to point out that in 1996 eurosport was owned by Gerry Brown and not by the present owners who do not do any head work etc they just supply parts and panels etc his workmanship was pretty good and i know he had a x1/9 that with head and cam work was producing 118bhp on the standrad carb,maybe they used a upgraded head gasket and i think the 1986 was the cross over from 10 head bolts to 14 headbolts,4 extra bolts were added due to gaskets continually going around the spark plug side of the head

ok
thanks guys ill let you know how I get on. I will be putting the head back together this week some time

ok just on other thing does anyone have any torque settings for the four m8 bolts on the spark plug side if a 14 bolt cylinder head.
Just want to make sure I've covered all the bases

Thanks

GOOD NEWS!! After waiting for new garage door and Xmas to pass, etc, finally got round to putting the car back together. It ran like a dream for about 40 miles - pulled well, revved well, idled well, drove really nicely.

Took it out today. Got to the end of the road and there were big clouds of smoke on over-run - exactly the same symptoms as I had before

As I mentioned before, the car has been stored for quite some time. Has anyone had any experience with cylinder blocks going porous or rusting? Due to the fact that I have done everything conceivably possible with the head, apart from the block or the piston rings I am running out of ideas. Along that line, has anyone got a 1500 block?!

PLEASE HELP - it's really pushing its luck.
Thanks, Tom

ps: might spend my Saturday taking the head off. Again.

If the problem is another blown gasket maybe the block needs skimming or at least checking for being level. I assume the head has been skimmed or checked for being level. Ideally both should be checked each time the head gasket is changed.

Rob

Tom,

It really does sound as if your head gasket has gone again. Have you checked to see whether with it being a modified head that it still uses the standard head gasket?
Do you have any remnants of the first gasket you replaced to check the thickness and compare with what you have fitted?

As Rob says, it may be worth getting the flatness of the head checked after blowing the gasket again.

Also, make sure you use a new set of head bolts!

One other option could be to try and obtain a standard head, get it checked over and fit that and get it back to standard.

Thanks guys

I spent yesterday afternoon taking the engine out and taking the head off and yes the gasket has blown again!!! I had the head checked for flatness, crack tested and pressure tested and I used all new bolts and all new gaskets. I spoke to Eurosport and the lady there had never heard of an upgraded head gasket and after a quick search on the net, nor could I. The trouble is I don't know how modified the head is. All it says on the bill is "modified cylinder head" no part numbers, nothing.

Unfortunately when I first took the head off it was because the exhaust stud snapped off and at this point I had never run the car, so didn't know if any problems so just checked the old gasket.

My next plan of action is to see if I can get the same action taken to the block, i.e skimmed & checked etc, and if the block looks ok I'll do the rings and shells etc while it's out as I am really starting to run out of ideas as to what else it could be.

I will be talking to the engineers on Monday as to what state they need the block in to get it checked and I will let you know how I get on, but it may be a couple of weeks. Thank you for your help and I really hope this will be the end of the engine troubles.

P.s has anyone got a 1500 block if all else fails???

Tom

Unless you have had such things as Wills Rings fitted (unlikely unless you had a race spec engine) then most modification on a head would be valves, gas flowing etc - this shouldn't affect the fitment of a standard head gasket. It is unlikely that a cast iron block would go out of flat unless totally cooked at some point, but I have known engines with corrosion at the top between the bore and the waterways. You should blow out the stud holes in the block as you can get hydraulicing due to water and oil sitting at the bottom preventing you from tightening the bolts as far down as you think. Should there be washers of a certain size under the head bolts? Make sure the gasket is seated properly as they can get easily pinched. Make sure there are no remnants of the old gasket lurking around oil ways and studs, etc and some are easy to put on upside down. I has a similar run of problems with an Ford Essex V6, I followed the same path as yourself with head skimming, better gaskets, etc and after the third attempt all was well - no idea what the original problem was (most likely shortcomings in my engine rebuilding skill :lol: ) . On such old engines the quality of spare parts can sometimes be variable even when sourced from reputable suppliers. If you get stuck I have a 1500 block that came out of my car before i fitted the turbo engine

Well the corrosion idea sounds probable as it has been sat for so long but the guy that had it before me put some diesel down the bores to get it turning over.

As for the head gasket, I blew all of the holes out with an air line and the new bolts supplied have built-in washers and I confirmed this with Eurosport. Also, as far as I can gather, the gasket can only go on one way as some of the water galleries don't line up. The block and head were very clean before going back together.

The gasket has blown between the water galleries on number 1 and number 4, this is why I also had the idea of looking into the corrosion of the block.

I'll keep you informed of progress and thanks for your help.
Tom
ps, can you pm me details of the block (price and location etc)!!

Upgraded racing head gaskets are available.
They're manufactured by Spesso in Italy.

I believe I bought mine through Nyssa Racing
I do seem to remember it being rather pricey though!

Tom this is probably a useless bit of info but eurosport performance heads were built by Bill Blydenstein a vauxhall race legend so the work was top quality

I second Spesso head gaskets

www.spesso.com/

But one thing i would add is maybe the head has been modified and skimmed past its tolerance, if the compression is now too high maybe its time for a new head and go back to standard, you should change head bolts but that's not your problem here.

Mad heads: been there done that not worth the hassle stick with normal head and valves, tweak with carb and exhaust, the x1/9 is a great car to drive when its breathing and cooling right, if you want more power you change the engine.

But hey what do i know!

Good Luck
Mark

well I am hoping the head hasn't been taken that far.
As far as I can gather the valves seem to be standard size and from googleing modified x1/9 head, it seems more fast road than race. So I am hoping it will be OK, but thank you for the heads up (pardon the pun!)

I took the head off so quickly after the smoke started that you can see where the first point of fail is, and it definitely looks on the block side. When you run your finger over the point on the block it feels rough. I could go down the route of skimming/repairing etc but judging by the state of the rest of the block I have opted for buying a second hand one that came out of a car that has had an engine swap.

I will get it checked and give it a bit of a re-fresh and hopefully that will be the end of the story and I should have a fully re-built engine ready for the summer Then I might be able to actually have a go at enjoying driving the car instead of working on it!
I know half the fun of cars is working on them but by those rules half the fun should be driving it, and I am distinctly missing the driving half :lol: